, because i've debated barak obama twice, i mean, he's not jimmy carter. reagan was the template who destroyed carter. but obama is much quicker than jimmy carter was. now, i don't think mitt romney is a confrontational man, am i correct on that assessment? he's not me. he's not looking for the fight. he doesn't relish the debate. >> that's what happened the first probably 15 primary debates. he stayed out of the fray and just sort of gave his mental. that's right. and let everybody else beat each other up. >> bill: but this time he has to prove himself to the american people which president obama doesn't have to prove himself. he's a known quantity. you like him, you don't. it's the people in the middle you're after. mitt romney still has to prove himself. so the burden in the debate is on the governor or am i wrong? >> no, i think you're absolutely right. while the challenger gets elevated by being on the stage with the president, clearly the president, he's on the mountain top. he's the victor, he won the last set of debates. he's the president. and so